When “no easy answer” means “no answer”

  

 

Those of you who’ve been following my posts this summer will recognize a familiar theme here—but events continue to unfold (or not unfold) that seem to keep me and others coming back to this line of thought—rather than speculate on what impact Brent Seabrook’s summer weight loss will have on the Blackhawks’ performance or where John Hayden will play.

Because perhaps no recent debate on Blackhawk Twitter captures the conundrum of the organization quite like those surrounding whether the Hawks should pursue Erik Karlsson (or Artemi Panarin, or until recently, Max Pacioretty) and how much the team might give up to acquire those players.

Typically, Hawk fans (or bloggers) will offer up something like, say, Dylan Sikura, another prospect and a draft pick—which would likely not be nearly enough to acquire any of those players.

The “going rate” for “plus players” in the NHL has typically been an established player, a solid to good prospect and a first round pick. For premier players like Karlsson or Panarin, start there and add—because both will be the center of epic bidding wars.

But I digress here, only to say underscore the point that the price or those types of players in trade would be high—and some have argued too high for a team that’s “more than one player away.”

I don’t disagree with that last bit.

However, that said, any time you can add an elite player in his prime—for a reasonable package of perhaps less than elite players and futures—it might not be a bad move.

And for what it’s worth I did hear on Tuesday that the Hawks made an offer for Pacioretty. A young roster forward and 2020 picks, not enough to beat Vegas’ offer. So for the sake of argument only, assuming my source is right—the Hawks made a run and came up short. In it, but not enough to win it.

Thus, the larger issue is this: no matter where you fall on the Relative Optimism Spectrum (or in Gatekeeper’s case, the Relative Cynicism Spectrum), the question remains—what is the team’s actual plan—this season and going forward?

We had a great dialogue on this topic with NBCSN’s Charlie Roumeliotis on RinkCast 29 (https://www.the-rink.com/podcast-download/8379/blackhawks-rinkcast-episode-29.mp3?ref=new_window), where Charlie suggested that such a trade right now would be foolish, when you can acquire one of those players in the summer of 2019 as a free agent. So why give up the assets now?

While he also has a point, there’s a counterpoint. First, if you made such a trade right now, you could theoretically extend the player (say, Karlsson) for slightly less AAV than it will take after a summer UFA bidding war. Further, in such a trade, some salary would almost have to go the other way. So there’s actually sort of a cap management argument for biting the bullet and dealing assets now to acquire an elite player. In theory.

But here’s the bigger point. Next summer, Duncan Keith will be 36, Brent Seabrook 34, Jonathan Toews 31. Another year’s worth of punishment on bodies already believed by many to have seen too many hard miles.

Well, why does that matter?

It matters because the Hawks’ salary structure and contract commitments are not those of a rebuilding team—but a team that’s supposed to be contending. So by holding fire and not going all in on a great additive piece right now, the Hawks are essentially forfeiting another year of “Cup Window,” maybe the last realistic year.

Sure, the ‘Window” may, in fact, already be closed. OK. Then why is $45 million a year or so committed to players who are 30 or older? If the Window is closed, then it’s already time to actually be rebuilding. Well, that depends on how you define “rebuilding.”

Which leads to a couple of phrases I coined earlier this summer: Door Number 3 or “The Silent Rebuild.”

Someone put it to me this way yesterday: “I’d prefer to ride it out like we are, wait for the next generation of talent to develop and hope for the best.”

Well, my strong suspicion is this is the perspective the team has (sort of) adopted—and is hoping fans will too. Silent Rebuild.

But there’s a problem there, as well. That perspective sort of rides on an assumption that Sikura, Adam Boqvist, Alex DeBrincat, Nick Schmaltz, and Henri Jokiharju may someday “replace” or equal Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Jonathan Toews and Brent Seabrook.

The problem is, with the possible exception of Boqvist and Keith, that equation will likely never happen.

And there’s no one in the organization right now who comes close to replacing or equalling Corey Crawford in his prime.

Alternatively, some are hoping that the aforementioned young players and prospects will mature into the complementary pieces that the Hawks’ aging core needs to compete for a Cup again soon.

This, also, is likely a pipe dream.

Sure, there are lots of 2018-19 “lineups” posted on message boards and social media with Jokiharju and Sikura on the team or even in top 4 or top 6 roles.

And, hey, there’s no law that says these guys can’t make the team or even assume big minute roles. But that would not mean either of them would necessarily be truly successful or what the team really needs to be an elite contender again. In fact, I’d bet against it—at this point.

The fact is, Schmaltz, for example, has been in the NHL now for nearly 2 full seasons. Yet as the team’s de facto 2nd line center, there remain a couple of big holes in his game. That’s not to malign Schmaltz. But rather to point out that the actual maturation curve for players in the NHL is longer than presumed by the convenient, EA Sports NHL 19 mentality that pervades summertime, social media lineups and lists.

So, my point here, as it’s been all summer, is the Hawks really seem to be not only going downhill, but worse still, stuck in neutral. Half-pregnant. Not reloading to contend, not meaningfully (and, by necessity, painfully) rebuilding.

And living in denial comes with a high mortgage payment,—so perhaps Rocky Wirtz has that in mind when he alluded to some big changes that might be coming should this team falter out of the gate, or worse still find itself out of the playoff picture (realistically) before the trade deadline.

And maybe the worst scenario for this team is the one that a disconcertingly high percentage of fans seem to be hoping for: that the team squeaks into the playoffs for a round. Because all that might really do is further forestall the inevitable realization that follows:

That, at some point in the not too-distant future, the “core” of the great Hawk teams since 2010 will not be able to carry the team into the postseason, much less beyond the first round anymore. And we may well already be there.

That the “youth movement” has not produced enough meaningful NHL pieces to effectively complement the core—and get the Hawks past the first round of the playoffs. Hasn’t happened in three years anyway. And, oh, by the way, whatever happened to Tyler Motte?

And that a real reset—driven by a series of bigger moves (no movement clauses be damned—because they can be waived), among which trading for an elite player in his early prime might be just one move of many—is necessary. Sooner rather than later.

And perhaps the first move(s) therefore would need to be in a front office that appears to be choosing not to choose.

Thanks for reading. Please comment below. Follow @jaeckel.

Center Ice Forums When “no easy answer” means “no answer”

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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  • #8597
    John Jaeckel
    Keymaster

      Those of you who’ve been following my posts this summer will recognize a familiar theme here—but events continue to unfold (or not unfold) that
    [To continue reading full article, click here: When “no easy answer” means “no answer”]

    Apparently, all goalies are Vikings

    #8601
    SufferinHawksFan
    Participant

    The Hawks are stuck, that’s the plain truth.  Even if all those players who have them would waive their no-trade clauses, no team is going to take them with all the $$$ left on their contracts.  The beloved have no choice but to ride out the remainder of the contracts given to 7/2/19/50 while hoping the kids are good enough to get them to the dance (we’ll call this the Big Hope) and once there hope to catch lightning in a bottle(Bigger Hope).  Once those contracts are off the books there will be an inevitable crash and true rebuild.

    We are realistically looking at 4-5 years before they will be thought of as Cup contenders going into a new season.  Hopefully Kane is still performing at a reasonable high level and can lead a new group of young-uns to the promised land.  That doesn’t mean something freaky might happen during the “Big Hope-Bigger Hope” era, and having a little cap space to rent a guy at the deadline is a good idea, just in case.

    That’s where we are, the true cup hangover last longer than a year.  We have 3 chalices from this group, the next will likely come from another group.  Unless something freaky happens.

    Keep it off my wave

    #8603
    matt_ahrens
    Participant

    I wish the Blackhawks would “replace” the guys who have been exiting the roster for the past 8 seasons. The talent level has been heading south for a while, made worse as the veterans age and add mileage.

    The upside of adding a guy in the final year of his contract is that you see how much the older guys have left in the tank playing with other solid veterans. If Keith or Seabrook or Toews are done, then it doesn’t matter who you add, the rebuild needs to happen.

    But it seems more like, the Blackhawks are ready to add some talent when there is enough NHL level talent already on the roster to make a Cup run. That kinda sorta maybe makes some sense. It kind of sucks as a fan because the probabilities of another championship sometime soon are low. But at least there is still a little hope – and if not on the ice this season, hope that a rebuild plan will be made clear soon.

    #8604

    The return for Karlsson was simply terrible because the “established” players are not seen as every going to be impact guys. I love that Chris Tierney has become a solid third line centre but that is the high water mark. And Norris was a reach when the chose him as low as they did, based upon the fact he could project as a NHL number two if all the work and pieces fall in place.

    Ottawa didn’t even get a quality defender prospect.

    And the picks no matter how many they turn into, are just that late shots at improvement but the ridiculous tweet showing a number (or bodies picks chances to improve) is all about hope, and quite frankly, the hope of a player blooming from this return is dim, and the GM and owner got backed into corner which Doug Wilson turned in his favor.

     

    #8611
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear John,

    I can’t figure out for the life of me why the Hawks keep relying on Schmaltz to be a #2 Center. He has never had a face off percentage over 41%. This would seem to be in conflict with the Hawk’s identity as a puck possession team. Would it then make sense to ship him out as part of a package to get a true second line center that can win OVER 50% of his face offs? If we can get a 1st round pick AND Ejdsell for Ryan Hartman, we should get some VERY GOOD return for Schmaltz in a package deal. Why do fans and the Hawks try to “pound a square peg into a round hole” by making Schmaltz into something he is not?

    Please help me understand. Thanks!!!!

    #8625
    6628
    Participant

    The hawks gave up on TT most likely due to his lack of commitment during the offseason. Seems he got the message after he got traded. I’d like the hawks to have a little leash with Schmaltz. There was no one ever skinnier than Kane when he got here, but PK put in the effort during the offseason. (insert offseason trouble joke here).  Schmaltz at one point last season was leading the league in take aways and my understanding is he finished 2nd or 3rd. He has a clue. And he has one other thing in his favor – he’s tall so he has potential leverage on his side and he doesn’t have to look like an olympic weightlifter. Just get strong enough to enhance his leverage. If I were Bowman I’d wait a bit and see if the effort is there in the summer. If not, then I think it’s package time for him. If so, I hang in there with him.

    #8627
    Under Qs moustache
    Participant

    Without Crow and Toews back to 100% any playoff discussion is just foolish. Forsberg may grow into the role as a starter given an opportunity this year, but asking or expecting him to replace Crow in his prime is like expecting Schmaltz or El Gato to win the scoring title. All 3 can have good seasons, it won’t be enough to make #7 or#8.

    Murphy out 8 weeks and Seabs out for a week or more to start the preseason isn’t going to help the Hawks chances.

    Ward has something to prove like Forsberg. Possibly a “no respect” attitude beginning from the net forward may get this team to bond and get off to a good start. That would make this season interesting.

    This team as assembled stands no chance in a 7 game series against the Blues, Preds, Jets, LV, and San Jose. Not to say that they’d be victorious against COL, MN, EDM, CAL, LA, ANA, AZ, or VAN either.

    The Hawks promised us all that they’d be competitive every year. One Goal! What we have here is the Hawks resuming their traditional role as ground feeder. Get a Snicker’s bar, this rebuild could take awhile.

    #8628
    Alan Parsons
    Participant

    So, honest question:  do they mean Murphy will be out for the *next* 8 weeks or he will miss the first 8 weeks of the season?

    #8643
    SufferinHawksFan
    Participant

    So, honest question: do they mean Murphy will be out for the *next* 8 weeks or he will miss the first 8 weeks of the season?

    Next 8 weeks, so about first 5 weeks of the season.

    I think Forsberg could be a #1 someday, just not last year or this one, probably.  Most of his bad habits are correctable and he shows good reflexes and overall good technique.  Let him develop in Rockford for a year and then see what we have.

     

    Keep it off my wave

    #8645
    DK002
    Participant

    The Hawks window is supposedly still open – meanwhile the Sharks got Karrlson for next to nothing.  Where was Bowman when this deal went down…sure we can talk about UFAs this next summer but the defense is still a disaster from where I’m sitting and Bowman’s adding of some meh depth isn’t going to make a big difference.

    Meanwhile we’ve all seen the video of CC on the ice taking shots from the goalie coach but he hasn’t practiced.  Will he practice eventually or will he continue to be the carrot dangling at the end of McD’s stick to the fans?

    Maybe its time for Corey to hang it up?  It’s been 9 months and he’s still got concussion symptoms.  CTE is a strange thing and is evident in hockey players as well.  Does Corey want to risk it?  He’s got a family now.  I couldn’t blame him if he decided to walk away.  But it doesn’t look like that’s going to be the case.

    Should be interesting to see how the new 1-3-1 PP goes tonight in Columbus…

     

    #8647
    Hank_Greenberg
    Participant

    The Hawks window is supposedly still open – meanwhile the Sharks got Karrlson for next to nothing. Where was Bowman when this deal went down…sure we can talk about UFAs this next summer but the defense is still a disaster from where I’m sitting and Bowman’s adding of some meh depth isn’t going to make a big difference. Meanwhile we’ve all seen the video of CC on the ice taking shots from the goalie coach but he hasn’t practiced. Will he practice eventually or will he continue to be the carrot dangling at the end of McD’s stick to the fans? Maybe its time for Corey to hang it up? It’s been 9 months and he’s still got concussion symptoms. CTE is a strange thing and is evident in hockey players as well. Does Corey want to risk it? He’s got a family now. I couldn’t blame him if he decided to walk away. But it doesn’t look like that’s going to be the case. Should be interesting to see how the new 1-3-1 PP goes tonight in Columbus…

    DK, I’m usually a bit more “glass half full” than you are about the Hawks, but I have to say that I don’t see how they can reasonably compete in the West this year. Even if everything goes their way, they seem to be a first-round casualty, at best. Stan’s failure to commit to either direction (“all-in for this year” or “start the rebuild”) means mediocrity this year.

    #8703
    DK002
    Participant

    The Hawks window is supposedly still open – meanwhile the Sharks got Karrlson for next to nothing. Where was Bowman when this deal went down…sure we can talk about UFAs this next summer but the defense is still a disaster from where I’m sitting and Bowman’s adding of some meh depth isn’t going to make a big difference. Meanwhile we’ve all seen the video of CC on the ice taking shots from the goalie coach but he hasn’t practiced. Will he practice eventually or will he continue to be the carrot dangling at the end of McD’s stick to the fans? Maybe its time for Corey to hang it up? It’s been 9 months and he’s still got concussion symptoms. CTE is a strange thing and is evident in hockey players as well. Does Corey want to risk it? He’s got a family now. I couldn’t blame him if he decided to walk away. But it doesn’t look like that’s going to be the case. Should be interesting to see how the new 1-3-1 PP goes tonight in Columbus…

    DK, I’m usually a bit more “glass half full” than you are about the Hawks, but I have to say that I don’t see how they can reasonably compete in the West this year. Even if everything goes their way, they seem to be a first-round casualty, at best. Stan’s failure to commit to either direction (“all-in for this year” or “start the rebuild”) means mediocrity this year.

    Hey Hank…I think we are where we are now.  The cup window is closed.  And I think you’ve got veterans that have carried this team asking themselves these are the UFAs you brought in?  We just saw Patches and Karlsson dealt – both could have helped the team – Karlsson much more so.  So what’s the plan?

    The Hawks could be a decent team this season, but a lot of kids playing and still a leaky back end.  Joki and Bodi will eventually be the backend of this team but how soon?  I don’t see Crawford getting in net anytime soon no matter how they want to dress it up with practices.

    Would love to see a new pres of hockey ops take over and they move Stan to the Bob Pulford suite…but McD still doesn’t get it.  Was watching the Wings Pens last night and they were talking about the Hawks coming in to play this evening – they mentioned since 19 and 88s big deals have kicked in the Hawks have done little to nothing in the playoffs.  This team has no where close to the depth it once had.  Sadly I think it’s going to be long season, but hoping its not.

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